Rabbi Eichler visits the Agudath Yisroel of Great Britain offices in London

Unedited

JT: Welcome to the head offices of the Agudah in Great Britain.  As you came for a family Simche, we wish you Mazal Tov.

IE: Thank you.  Indeed, I came to London for a wedding of a grandson, of whom I am very proud of.  Having toured some of Agudas Israel’s projects in Stamford Hill, I have come to realise that the activities of the Agudah in Great Britain are quite varied.

JT: It seems that there are people here in Stamford Hill who aren’t fond of you, according to the placards that they were holding up this past Motze Shabbos?

IE: As a member of parliament of the Jewish State I am used to this type of welcome.  In fact it is only natural that there is opposition to Charedi public servants, especially those who serve in this capacity, as I represent the Torah-true Charedi viewpoint.  These people would hold demonstrations against anything that move - were they to be given a free hand.  It is really sad that they have nothing better in their deprived lives other than to stand in the freezing cold and shout slogans that have long been destined to the dustbins of history.

JT: please explain what you mean by this.  Is there really no more place for the faithful voice of the pious, who hurt for the state of affairs in the Torah community?

Article in the Hebrew HaModia, December 2015

IE: Let’s face it, the Gedolim of the past three generations who arrived to the Holy Land after their communities were completely wiped out.  Those pre-war giants laid down the rules according to a new situation, namely a UN-mandate for a state run by Jewish people, albeit a group that was composed mainly of non-believers.  This new reality begged for a solution that would enable Torah-true Jews to continue raising the next generation in the way they were raised.  Therefore, they laid down the rules of engagement vis-a-vis the newly created State of Israel.  It is no secret that the founders were out to uproot any vestige of Yiddishkeit from the population and nearly succeeded in doing so with many communities who arrived from the Arab countries.  We have a working formula on how to take on any threat that blows in from their quarters and it has never failed us: listen to undiluted Da’as Torah  and follow its directives without wavering, without fearing the grumblings of the left or the eye rolling of the right and not even the protestations of the so-called pious...  We have solid proof that it works: in 1948-9, the total number of Yeshivah-leit (= lit. Men of learning) was around 500.  This was at a time when the nascent State was snatching newborn babies away from devout parents – to be raised as true Israelis.  We are now nearly seventy years later and the agnostic left is lamenting the fact that there are now over fifty thousand students in the Kollel system.

JT: Do the extreme elements in the Charedi world not see this development, or are there any motives behind their stubborn behaviour?

IE: If you analyse this phenomenon carefully, you will see that ultimately these deprived individuals share the hope for the same outcome as the most ardent anti-Charedi Zionist: the destruction of authentic Judaism as we know it, which has stood the test of time.

JT: Rabbi Eichler, you weren’t chosen to represent Torah Judaism on a whim; tell us a bit more about your career – especially in politics.

IE: I grew up in Yerusholayim and as a Belz Chossid I merited to work under the tutelage of the Rebbe, first as an Editor of the HaMachneh HaCharedi, the weekly Hebrew language newspaper, which acts as the mouthpiece of Charedi Jewry and as the need arose I was tasked with representing the Charedi view in televised debates.  These debates pitted me against some of the most virulent anti-Charedi politicians in society and not once reached heated moments that made for typical Israeli entertainment.   These experiences allowed me to hone my debating skills as much as they were an opportunity to demonstrate to the Israeli public that authentic, undiluted Yiddishkeit is alive and here to stay.  

JT: What for you is the most challenging aspect of being a Charedi politician in a secular governing coalition government?

IE: Unlike other countries, you are dealing all the time with people who portray themselves as Jews.  At the same time their behaviour belies their ancestry, which makes for a constant dichotomy: how do you relate to a Hebrew speaking atheist?  In my capacity as a member of parliament, I need to constantly be on full alert so as to ensure my manner of speech and overall behaviour brings respect to the Charedi public.  Furthermore, there is a myriad of issues that aren’t directly related to Halochoh, still they touch on Torah Hashkofoh and so require legislation that might conflict with non-religious politicians.

JT: How important is it for United Torah Judaism (UTJ) to be in the coalition in this Knesset?

IE: All decisions on how to interact with the government and its departments are set out by the Mo’etzes Gedoley HaTorah – the Council of Torah Great – and they tell us what to do and how to go about it.  Not always were members of the UTJ allowed to be active partners in a Knesset, although they were promised the world.  At the conclusion of the present elections, UTJ members of parliament were sent by the Mo’etzes to join the coalition government, a decision that has proven itself to help safeguard the future of Klal Yisroel in the Holy Land.  

JT: There is a heated debate going on in the Charedi world, about Army conscription.  What are the views of our Gedolim?

IE: There is no place for a Yeshivah Bochur to be in the army, both on religious and tactical grounds: The only country in the world – other than Israel - where Army conscription is compulsory is North Korea.  In previous generations, an army’s might was measured by the number feet on the ground; nowadays, this is no more the case.  Advances in technology made it possible for military operations to be executed by less people at a faster pace than any time in history.  Furthermore, the fact that the army in Israel was set up as a ‘correctional facility’ or ‘societal melting pot’ is no secret: there was a need to amalgamate the Olim from seventy countries, hailing as they were from as many disparate cultures into a single homogenous stereotype – the Tzabar (lit. New Israeli).  With the benefit of hindsight, we can now see the outcome, which is not an encouraging one.  One telling example: The number of Israelis living outside the borders of our Holy Land nearly outnumbers the current population in Israel.  

JT: What was the achievement of UTJ to pass the amendment on the draft law?

IE: Whilst I can see what our successful passing of the amendment in the law achieved for Klal Yisroel, I would like to stress that – as a member of parliament representing UTJ- I merely do what I am told by the Mo'etzes Gedoley HaTorah.  

By pushing off the draft law by another seven years, we gained a window of opportunity, similar to the gain that was achieved in the early years of the State, when an agreement was reached between the Agudas Yisrael and the then heads of State, that the decision to conscript everybody without exception should remain in the hands of the IDF’s Chief of Staff.

JT: How does this amendment sit with the general population, who claim that the Yeshivah world does not share an equal burden?

IE: The law dictates equal rights for every Israeli citizen, which the Supreme Court is making sure to uphold at any cost.  Still, there needs to be a framework in which the Charedi population remains within the law and still be granted a temporary deferment or total exemption, as was agreed in the past.  This is where the active involvement of the UTJ came into play: by putting forward a compromise that all Charedi men who - in their capacity as a public servant - are helping Israeli society should be counted as part of the required quota of 5,200 people, the law is still upheld and the Yeshivos are left untouched.

JT: What is counted as a public servant for the purpose of this law?

IE: Anyone who volunteers or works at Zaka, MDA, Hazolo or a similar organisation counts as a public servant.  In fact, we could easily surpass the above-mentioned quota – given that our volunteers are active in nearly every type of social welfare.

JT: Were these targets not met, what would have been the likely outcome?

IE: This depends on whom you ask: the Israeli lawmakers working on behalf of the non-Frum parties, the extremist elements at the fringes of the Charedi world or the UTJ...

JT: At any time, was there talk about reaching a point when a Yeshivah man would be enlisted against his will? 

IE: Up until the amendment of the Tal law (on 19^th November of this year), there was a proviso in the law – inserted by promoters of the universal draft law – that in case the quota of 5,200 people isn’t reached, all draft-age boys will be called up, regardless of the need for so many recruits.  This thorny amendment was now thrown out, which is a real cause for celebration.

JT: Whereas in the past we were used to encounter Heimishe people in uniform, what changed in the Jewish community with regards to the attitude towards conscripted soldiers from the Heimishe community?  

IE: There exists a minuscule fringe element in the Charedi community that is trying to torpedo the achievements of UTJ and are actively working to deligitimise the existing status quo, in which it is accepted that – left without choice – some Yeshivah leavers are enlisting.  The phenomenon of attacking uniform-clad soldiers in Shuls was unheard of and only happens due to active incitement coming forth from these extremists, who – given the opportunity - saw to it that soldiers should be physically assaulted when they want to Daven.

JT: What is the nature of your connection to the heads of State, how do they view an Israeli lawmaker in Chassidic garb?

IE: As representatives of the Frum community, we always try to operate on cordial terms.  In their heart of hearts, every Jew – however far they have fallen – fully respects the Shomer Torah, even when he doesn’t always understand him.  

To illustrate the point, once I met the late Yitzchak Rabin on Erev Pesach and presented him with a full Seder Kit: Three beautifully hand-baked circular Matzos etc., for which he seemed very touched, as is evident from the question he posed to me at that point: I am aware that the Yomtef of Chanukah is celebrated for eight days, in commemoration for the victory of the Maccabees over the Greek armies, which culminated in the lighting the menorah for which pure oil was unavailable for eight days.  However why is it that we celebrate Pesach for eight days, when Moshe Rabenu took us out of Egypt on the first day?  What caused our forefathers to institute such a long Yomtef for a one day event?”  

I replied to his questions by explaining the significance of the Torah commandment to keep this Yomtef for seven days and that on the seventh day we merited to the Nes of the splitting of the Reed sea etc., basically I opened his eyes to a whole new slice of history and tradition to which he obviously was unaware up until that day.  

He took in my words with sincerity and paused in deep thought, after which he lamented the fact that whilst his generation and the founding fathers of the State managed to set up an infrastructure, army, commerce, agriculture, education, social welfare and medical systems, no one of that generation bothered to ensure that the youth should know about Jewish values, Jewish traditions and Jewish Holidays – in essence: why didn’t they deem it important that the young generation has a Jewish education.  He genuinely felt deprived for what he realised are values fundamental to people with such a rich heritage – and he wasn’t even part of it.  

To us this question is not a question at all; it’s the raison d’être for the Zionist worldview of “let us be like all the peoples” and indeed they sadly managed to raise generations of Jews bereft of any vestige of Jewishness.  We should however be mindful of this fact and treat these lost generations as true Tinokos Shenishbu, with all what this status represents.  

My sharp response to him elicited an even sharper retort: I told him that as a Prime Minister he can now see to it that his grandchildren shouldn’t be able to ask this question to him, when the grow up and know nothing about Pesach or Chanukah.  To which he replied: “you are surely aware that for the past two decades (ca. 1975 – 1995) the Department for Education has been in the hands of (what in his eyes were perceived as) religious ministers”. 

In other words, we are giving free reign for this sorry situation to be rectified; only the people at the helm are to fault for failing to act.

JT: What is the relationship between religious members of parliament – those who serve in non-religious parties - towards UTJ?

IE: Let me tell you a story that happened during one of my televised debates, in which the Minister of education who happens to wear a cupple (Kippah) participated.  He explained to the listeners that although he himself is religious (at least that’s how he wants to be viewed) and feels part of the Israel experience, there is a large contingent in the Jewish population that doesn’t: the Charedi public.  To quote him in his own words “they don’t recognise in the sovereign (“Ribon” in Hebrew)”, only they send their children to the Chinuch Atzma’i schools, where the Ribon is not recognised as the overall sovereign on this country.  The fact that they give little though to the importance of teaching their children such important subject such as English, Arithmetic or Biology, they totally negate the existence of the “Ribon”.  The time has arrived” he continued “that the Charedi population should start to learn to recognise in the sovereignty of the State”.  I responded that the term “Ribon” belongs to the Ribon HaOlam, the true sovereign of the whole world and as such the State of Israel has no sovereignty over the minds and souls of our precious children.

JT: What is your view on the current situation in Mainland Europe, with what’s happening in France, Belgium and other countries?

IE: I happen to come from a meeting with ministers in the Council of Europe, for which I was sent on behalf of the State of Israel and I explained to them that as long as the Islamists will have their designs on conquering all non-believing countries there will be no peace.

JT: How does the UTJ deal with the Chok Liba (the law that requires every child in Israel to be educated to a certain academic standard)? 

IE: You in the UK – as is the case in Montreal, Canada and Zurich in Switzerland, or Antwerp, Belgium – are fully aware what it means to be scrutinised by the Department for Education.  We are all working very hard to find a solution to this very important issue and with the help of HaShem the Mo’etzes Gedoley HaTorah in Eretz Yisroel shall guide us on how to overcome this obstacle.

JT: How do you view the interaction between the Agudas Israel branch in the UK with the local government – could there be any benefit in working on placing an Agudah representative as is being done in Washington?

IE: In a way you are lucky that the Aguda in Great Britain doesn’t have anyone in Westminster, as the current state of affairs would have made such a position untenable.  The ever growing turbulence caused by the Arab Spring, ISIS and others might have caused irreparable damage to the local Jewish community as being in tune with and by default supportive of the Muslim vs. Western stance – a position whose repercussions could reverberate for many years to come without a chance to reverse it.

JT: What is the connection – if any – between the Agudah in Eretz and the local Agudah?

IE: I must admit that up until my arrival to London this time, I was unaware of such a beautifully organised Agudah network of institutions as I am seeing here in Stamford Hill.  I understand that similar branches exist elsewhere in the UK.  The little that I was shown around convinced me that Agudas Israel is alive here and benefits the local Kehillah – even those who oppose to them ideologically.  Perhaps the time has come to instigate a connection between the local Agudah and the worldwide network with its headquarters in Jerusalem, to further the cause of the founding principles: and they shall all make a union to do Your will with all their hearts.

First published on 18 January 2016, on Jewish P.O.S.T. - the Jewish Voice for the People of South Tottenham (this Blog is now defunct).